Two Snips or Not Two Snips. This is a Question.

I’ve had many people ask me what I think this baby will “be.” As in weiner or cooter. Innie or outie. It’s one of the fun parts of getting pregnant, along with buying “maternity underwear,” getting to guess the gender sex of the child.

I try to explain to people that I have this “sense” about my babies. I always imagined myself having a boy and then a girl, but the second I got pregnant with Ellie, I knew it was a girl. Then I decided I’d have two girls but a few weeks into this pregnancy, I thought “boy.”

I know, I know, you don’t understand. It’s like my vagina knows. I mean, who else besides my vagina has an upclose and personal look into my uterus? Okay, the cervix does but I hate my cervix, therefore I choose to ignore it.

The thought of a boy scares me. Sure, there’s the whole fact that everyone is going to try and make him a Tonka Truck carrying, Monster Truck watching, Card Carrying Hick. What I’m really worried about, however, is the weiner.

First off, I can’t imagine growing something with nuts and a wang in there. Second, these nuts and wang will emerge and someone is going to expect me to clean them.

Hello, my name is The Sarcastic Journalist and I’m scared of cleaning poop off of the twig and giggleberries.

So I recently spoke with Very Mom on the phone. I still giggle about it because she has a very light and sweet voice, which is totally opposite from my gruff “moose sounding” voice. Anyway, so VM and I (heehee, I talked to her!) were discussing the old circumcision of the old weiner.

She feels the way I do.

First off, I am married to someone who has been “clipped” and I think he has a very pretty penis. In fact, I should paint a picture of his penis and show it to everyone so you can all gasp in its beauty as well.

Anyway, he is a man who has a penis, therefore, he wants to decide what happens to JizzBiscuit’s weiner. He says “clip it.”

I say “I don’t know…I don’t think we should snip. There’s no reason to do so.”

He says: “HIPPIE!”

I asked him why he wanted to snip. (I’m avoiding having to spell out circumcision, in case you haven’t noticed.) He said “So I won’t laugh at him.”

Um, okay.

Anyway, I guess there’s this manly thing where the father feels that he and the son need to have privates the look alike. (I’m not bringing VM into this because she has her own blog and I don’t want to steal her thunder or put words into her mouth just so all of yous guys know.) Anyway, does my husband plan on pulling out his weiner and comparing with his son?

Do fathers and sons do this type of thing?

I do not want my baby to get hurt by someone tying him down to a board and then cutting up his little twig. But, I don’t want him to grow up and hate me because I didn’t cut him and he has had to spend his entire life with a “turtleneck.”

What if he moves to Europe because he is embarrassed of his weenier? What if he marries some mean woman from Norway and bypassed the love of his life here because of the C issue and now I won’t have a daughter in law who likes iced tea and writes thank you notes?

YOU HAVE TO WRITE THANK YOU NOTES, INTERNET!

But? What if they botch the job and my son is left with a crooked wang that resembles a pig in a blanket? What if we move to the West Coast, where the “C” rate is hovering around 35ish% and he’s the weirdo?

Then again, what if we move to the midwest where the C rate is at 80%?

What if my child wants a job in porn but he can’t get one and he’ll have to spend his entire life working as a stunt cock? All because mommy didn’t get him snipped.

Wait. No son of mine is going to be a stunt cock.

Then again, perhaps a European daughter in law would be cool. We could visit her parents, you know, to meet the “family” and go to nude beaches where we’d laugh at all the “turtlenecks.”

You know how some people give their daughters boob jobs for graduation? Maybe we’ll give him a circumcision!

So, what’s your take on the C issue. To snip or not to snip?

171 Comments

  1. Snip.

    Both of my boys were snipped. They did it pretty much right after they were born, well, after the doctor sewed my twat up, he got to snippin’. They cried for a second and it was over.

    And they don’t have turtlenecks. Although, I hear “one of them” has hair on their balls.

    And wiping the shit off of balls is gross.

    One more thing. If you have a boy? PLEASE CALL IT A PENIS.

    P.S. I can’t believe you left me for verymom. WHATEVER, skank

    Comment by Y — 6/25/2005 @ 11:41 pm

  2. Hubbie - snipped
    6 year old - snipped
    3 year old - not snipped

    Now, they have been known to congregate around the toilet in an effort to show the little guy the joy of a diaper-free life. So far, no one’s paid much attention to the difference - and the boys are quite happy with their pieces. Really happy. Like, quality alone time, happy. Like, “Hey Mommy - the strangest thing happens to my pee-pee when I …”

    Boys are … interesting. And never, ever dull. :)

    Comment by SuperMomIsDead — 6/25/2005 @ 11:47 pm

  3. I am not a mother but as a former tramp, I would say snip. Non-snipped are just weird looking.

    I’m pretty sure that my sister decided to snip with my nephew but I’m not calling to ask her or whether or not her husband will be comparing his penis to my nephew’s penis.

    Comment by DM — 6/25/2005 @ 11:48 pm

  4. Um, okay. So I’ve never gotten this debate. I live in Canada, and even though we’re all neighbours and stuff, there isn’t much snipping going on up here. Sure, there is the religious snipping, and then there are those who do it just cause dad had it done, but really? Are dads and kids going around comparing their bits? Cause that’s kinda weird.

    The arguments against snipped or not snipped are spurious. Dude, if a guy is going to let himself get stanky down there, snipping is not going to help. When it comes to having sex, the “turtleneck” disappears, so it isn’t like you notice. Boys who aren’t snipped learn how to take care of cleaning down there, and honestly, everyone has to clean down there.

    I’ve been with boy snipped and unsnipped, and there is no difference. I’ve nannied both snipped and unsnipped, and never had any cleaning issues.

    Personally, I wouldn’t have a baby of mine snipped unless it was necessary (this is all hypothetical, of course). It’s not even the pain that concerns me (though that isn’t completely unimportant), but I don’t like the idea of an unecessary surgery being performed on a baby. Low-risk, sure.

    That said, I would never call anyone on their decision to get their son snipped, even though I think it is usually unecessary. To each family their own.

    Comment by Louise — 6/25/2005 @ 11:58 pm

  5. Our lad is unsnipped. I was worried that he’d someday ask us why his wang looked different than his dad’s, and my husband replied: “I’d tell him to go ask his grandma why she had mine MUTILATED!”

    O-kay, then!

    The other argument I like (although this is more persuasive to women than to men): the uncircumsized penis is slightly more high-maintenance. Meaning he will actually have to take some care to clean it, it’s not just rinse and go.

    As a member of the sex with the VERY high maintenance genitals, I say HA! Poor boys! I WEEP for you! And I cruelly did not cut it, because I’m mean that way.

    Comment by rachel — 6/26/2005 @ 12:12 am

  6. hmmm, I say snip. But I have never even seen an unsnipped penis, so I can’t say why I’m for it.

    I’m the same way with knowing what my babies were going to be. I knew right away both times that I was having girls. My vagina is psychic!

    Comment by christina — 6/26/2005 @ 12:29 am

  7. We snipped. I had a few moments of doubt, especially when my mom told me (while I was 6 months pregnant) that my 3 year old brother was having it “re-done” since they didn’t remove all the foreskin. However, things like that are pretty rare. It’s WAY more traumatic to have it done later in life. I’ve seen and unsnipped weiner, I am creeped out by them. My ex-husband was snipped, and wanted his son to be too. All the basic reasons. As far as the anti-cirumcision people, the ones who tell you you are torturing your poor child, it’s CRUEL, you’re horrible… hey I pierced my daughter’s ears at 6 months old, call it even. I’m equally “cruel” to my children, get over it. Oh, and for the record, my son wasn’t cut, they used a plasti-bell, this little plastic ring that they put on, it falls off in about a week.

    Comment by Crystal — 6/26/2005 @ 1:12 am

  8. i totally agree with Lousie, but i am canadian also. it is totally and completely medically unnecessary, and personally, i believe cruel. the rate is going to drop as people figure out how useless it is. as Lousie said, it is becoming rare “up here” for people to circumsize. the dad and son the same argument is bullshit (since you asked me for my opinion) and it is nothing more than male ego crap.

    wow, i never knew i felt so strongly.

    i will still love you regardless of what you do though.

    xo

    Comment by jenB — 6/26/2005 @ 1:15 am

  9. Jason sports an “anteater” (turtleneck). The husband isn’t snipped, either, and it isn’t really that big of a deal. Either way you go, it’s still nasty having to clean the poop and other stuff off of it. As a matter of fact, this past week Jason got RINGWORM down there. I don’t know how the hell he accomplished that, but he did. I was horrified.

    Anywho, it is your decision. A schlong is still a schlong, no matter what it looks like.

    And I also knew what I was having. The minute I found out I was pregnant, I knew it was a boy. I bought all sorts of blue stuff (my family thought I was crazy), but in my heart I knew I was going to have a little boy.

    Comment by Jessica — 6/26/2005 @ 1:36 am

  10. No snipping! Two boys - both snipped due to father NOT being snipped as babe, but having probs and being snipped at 13yo. VERY painful - will never forget. I went along - thinking he was right and would know best (being a man and having a PENIS!) but if I could do it again - no snipping!

    Comment by e — 6/26/2005 @ 2:13 am

  11. Hi SJ. I noticed that at the beginning of your post, you put something about your child’s ‘gender,’ when I think you meant ’sex’. Gender (treating boys and girls differently while still in the womb and socializing them to behave differently after birth) is conditioned, and sex (X and Y chromosomes, physical characteristics) is inherent. There are some who argue that gender is also inherent, though the works of anthropologist Margaret Mead argue differently, and some even believe that gender ambiguity will be the norm in the near future. Also, I noticed that someone said she bought all blue baby products after finding out the sex of her child. I just thought I’d point out that the color blue was thought to be a ‘feminine’ colour before the 1930s, and pink to be a more ‘masculine’. Boy babies were wrapped in pink blankets after birth, and girls in blue. The actual colour is practically irrelevent, but this is just one example of how gender is conditioned very early and depending on the child’s sex, he or she is restricted from certain things. As for circumcision, and I’m sure you’ll be reading about this if you haven’t already, there are many who believe that there is a significant loss of sensation on the penis after circumcision, because it is constantly rubbing against underwear and clothes, becoming desensatized (sp?) to feeling, as opposed to a natural penis who’s hidden safely within a moist protective layer of foreskin. This seems like a milder version of African clitorectimies. I think you shouldn’t, because there’s not really a ‘rational’ reason to just slice the skin off of someone’s penis, especially when that someone has no say in the matter…. and moose voice? I’ve always imagined you to sound honey-like. You should audioblog. I am confused… I apologize if I’ve sounded too opinionated or pretentious, but these issues are important to me.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/26/2005 @ 2:49 am

  12. It’s up to you and your hubs :) but I personally have never encountered an unsnipped. So I wouldn’t know. But the hubby has told me friends of his got it done when they were older and it was MUCH more painful. So I don’t know exactly, but I say it’s your choice, either that or let him choose when he is old enough and present all the issues at that time. Good luck.. but if it’s a girl, then oh well.

    Comment by Shalini — 6/26/2005 @ 3:40 am

  13. Longtime lurker, don’t know if I’ve ever commented, but this situation has really gotten me thinking.

    I’m all about the snipping, but I suppose it really just for aesthetic reasons because I have only been with snipped wee-wees. Now I live in Europe where all the boys seem to be naturally hanging (I don’t know from personal experience, but I’ve been collecting data from trampy friends), so if I have a young one here, where do I go with that? Snip or not? Would my little guy be a weirdo amongst his friends for being clipped? The Boy is all about snipping (he’s snipped). His son with his (European) ex did not get snipped, and The Boy is still bitter and insists that our boy(s) will be snipped. But I like to consider myself a “natural” type and all of these anti-snipping arguments are making a lot of sense. Shit. One more hypothetical to dwell on. Hell, I won’t think about it; I’ll just do whatever you do. Would that creep you out?

    Brandi - I’m a pain in the ass about the gender/sex difference myself, so I appreciated your comment. People are always mixing the two up when speaking.

    Comment by lee — 6/26/2005 @ 3:45 am

  14. I say snip. When my 5 year old son was snipped they used a lidocaine cream (which numbs the weiner) and he hardly cried. I seriously debated whether or not to do it until my husband told me about a kid he knew in school who wasn’t snipped and when they had to shower in the locker room other guys made fun of him. Why give your kid a chance to be made fun of?

    Comment by Kelly — 6/26/2005 @ 6:33 am

  15. Not snipped. I dunno why, to be honest. As long as he’s clean and looks after it, then i think turtlenecks are ok. Not like you’re showing it to everybody all the time anyway..oh i dunno, have never been with a snipped one, so hard to say…

    Comment by trine — 6/26/2005 @ 6:37 am

  16. unsnipped I think…I saw my brothers after he had it done (just after he was born, people) and it wasnt pretty. Though, that may just be baby weewees in general ;) Plus, my mother didnt (european) want it to be done, his father did (american), obviously…the daddy won over.

    Comment by Fellow Eskimo — 6/26/2005 @ 6:38 am

  17. We snipped Dash, for a lot of reasons, but mostly because of the whole Daddy thing. Also there’s a lot more to clean when there’s a turtleneck.

    He cried less during his snip than he did the first time we tried to breastfeed, so I never felt like he had been tortured or anything.

    I just babysat a three year old girl overnight for a friend and decided if I have a girl next time she’s going to “camp” until she’s 18.

    Comment by Paige — 6/26/2005 @ 8:06 am

  18. Snip! I had both of my boys snipped for the most traditional reason of all: because that’s how it’s done down here in the south. I’ve seen my fair share and they’ve all been snipped. I thought a lot about what to do when I found out that my first was a boy, but I knew I made the right decision when he was potty training and “sword fighting” with his daddy. (Peeing at the same time and crossing the pee, totally a boy thing, totally gross.) Anyway, do whatever your husband had done so your (hypothetical) son will be like his first idol: daddy.

    Comment by Mama (Dana) — 6/26/2005 @ 9:27 am

  19. You should definitely snip. Its much cleaner and if he has to get it done later in life its way more painful. My boyfriend had to have it done when he was 17 and he said it was the most excruciatingly painful thing(not the surgery, the after effects) and so now if we have a boy he’s adamant that it gets snipped. My poor boyfriend walks around with noticeable scars on his penis from this circumscision….he’ll never be in porn…don’t let that happen to JizzBiscuit!!!

    Comment by April — 6/26/2005 @ 9:54 am

  20. I snipped both boys, there was really no question because there dad is snipped and well, yuck, I like snipped. HOWEVER, it makes me so nervous, the after care I mean…its thier PENIS for gods sake. I don’t want to break it. I have never had a girl, so when my friend made me change her daughter’s diaper the other day I was freaked. Way too many cracks and crevices for me.

    Comment by Corrie — 6/26/2005 @ 10:09 am

  21. If I had a boy, I’d get him snipped. The unsnipped variety freak me out. In fact, most penises (penii?) freak me out (like I’ve seen SO many…heh). How do guys live with those things?

    Comment by NinaKaye — 6/26/2005 @ 10:32 am

  22. First, you are asking for trouble asking this question. All kinds of weirdos will come out of the wooodwork. Here comes one now! ME! I am the mom of a son and a post partum nurse who assists in circs. I would say, talk to your OB/GYN (who does the procedure) and ask what their thoughts are. Not on the morals, etc. but at my hospital, some premedicate, some don’t. Some post-medicate (with tylenol for 24 hours). Some use topical anesthetic, some use injectable. No matter what, they cry a little (they are babies, they cry a little anyway). We give them sugar water sometimes during the procedure because some study somewhere said it helped. I think during a bris (not Jewish, not sure of the correct spelling or even if my info on this is correct) don’t they give the baby the corner of a cloth soaked in wine? Yeah, it probably hurts a little but 1) so does jamming your head through your mom’s tiny giney and 2) name one guy who remembers it.

    P.S. I had the EXACT same experience with my kids. I “wanted” a boy first but knew immed. it was a girl. I kind of hoped for sisters but knew it was a boy. Right on both counts. I’m always surprised when women say they thought it was one sex until it was born. I was so sure. Then again it was 50/50 I would be right, right?

    Comment by Em — 6/26/2005 @ 10:35 am

  23. I don’t have a boy, probably never will but if I did I wouldn’t snip.

    There’s so many nerve endings on the foreskin, and it’s there for a reason.

    And Angie, I have to disagree with you on the “cleaner” the foreskin is there to help protect the wang, and it’s not hard to teach little boys to pull it back and how to properly take care of it.

    Comment by Stacey — 6/26/2005 @ 11:20 am

  24. I didn’t snip either of my boys…didn’t feel it was necessary even though dad is snipped. Personally I think penises are pretty dang unattractive either way. I don’t think cleaning pop off boys is any worse than poop getting everywhere on a girl (actually I find girls way more messy in that respect). Where did you come up with the word “cooter” anyways…I mean is is so hard to type vagina? LOL.

    Comment by Kris — 6/26/2005 @ 11:38 am

  25. one word: smegma….
    and then I went and googled smegma (http://www.foreskin.org/)

    AHHHHHHH…some of them look like little stretched buttholes…

    and there is “overhang"!!!!

    And Brandi mentioned a “significant loss of sensation"….really do boys need that much more sensation then they already get…

    Comment by ands — 6/26/2005 @ 11:57 am

  26. Oh my, yet another blog has firmed up my decision to adopt a “ready made” baby and not produce my own! ;)
    I think snipping is so cultural in the U.S., that people think unsnipped is weird just because it’s different. I’ve always been of the impression unsnipped is just a bit easier to care for. This is probably horrible of me, but I’m somewhat unsympathetic about the pain thing, partly because babies get shot up full of innoculations in their first year anyway, and partly because girls are going to go through SO MUCH HELL related to their girlparts over the course of life that a little snippy snip to the boy seems only fair.
    In conclusion, I have no advice I guess other than do what you want.

    Comment by diane — 6/26/2005 @ 11:58 am

  27. Brandi, you’re my hero.

    Comment by jessca — 6/26/2005 @ 12:18 pm

  28. don’t snip.

    The only place in the world where this is even a discusion is the US. How American men are ignorant enough to let this practice continue is totally beyond me.

    Have you asked your OB and your ped their opinion? Most doctors do not support infant circ’ing.

    Good luck on your decision !

    Comment by sillypants — 6/26/2005 @ 12:39 pm

  29. Snippety-do-dah! Just because Daddy’s is.
    You know, I just can’t bring myself to think in terms of “Cooter.” After all, Cooter was the name of that fuzzy, greasy, redneck mechanic dude on the Dukes of Hazard. I can’t go for that, no. No can do.

    Comment by Darcie — 6/26/2005 @ 12:55 pm

  30. When I found out that the thing growing in me did in fact come equipped with junk one of my first questions to Joe was did he want to snip. Now, Joe has another son whose circ. was botched, not so bad he’s scarred for life, but he’s in some kind of weird middle ground where he has half a foreskin.
    We went ahead and had Jack snipped anyway, and other than those few days of hating myself for causeing him pain I’ve been glad we did.
    I just couldn’t get the thought of the cleaning bits out of my head, and that scared me more than knowing that he’d be prone to peeing in my face.
    And guess what? They do actually pee in your face. Woo!

    Comment by Jack’s Raging Mommy — 6/26/2005 @ 12:59 pm

  31. I had my son snipped. I didn’t even think about it. But 12 years ago it wasn’t such an issue as it is today.

    They didn’t snip him at the hospital, they did it at his three week check up. So, I was the one who had to take care of it. It wasn’t hard to take care of and it healed really quick. I let him go diaperless most of the time while it healed and just kept vasiline on the booboo. He wimpered a little the first two days when he peed, but that was all.

    I really don’t have any strong feelings either way on the debate. But I will tell you, if you do have a boy and if he’s anything like my boy, you’ll have a hard time getting him to keep it clean. My son is such the stereotypical “boy” because he likes dirt and bugs and hates showers.

    Comment by Heatheranne — 6/26/2005 @ 1:05 pm

  32. Don’t snip.
    I’m an “unsnipped guy", and I’ve read up on it because I was curious growing up. There is evenidence to suggest that it effects the pain and pleasure nervous system in a negative way. One theory about pain is that once you are subjected to pain in any part of your body, it becomes much easier to be in pain there, and less easy for it to be in pleasure. the body learns functions based on experience. Why in the world would you want to give your child a painful exeperience so early in it’s life, is beyond me (you are cutting it). And then when you take in some of the theories of how pain works, it gets even worse.

    Cleaning is just a matter of awareness. I wash my face every day, sometimes multiple times a day, I bathe at least once a day, well. I just take the extra few seconds to make sure I’m clean down there as well.

    Not knowing the audience here, I’ll just say that it makes “adult” situations, more enjoyable (you have a protective sheath around it most of the day, it isn’t being desensitized by rubbing around all day long), and the girls (in my case at least) seem to be a interested in it… Hopfully that didn’t cross any boundries.

    Now I’m just hoping my email address isn’t public to the world when I hit submit ;)

    Comment by unsnipped — 6/26/2005 @ 1:18 pm

  33. We are in the minority of the snipped here in the land of the west-coasters. I left the decision up to the hubs, who is more knowledgable in the ways of the wang than I. He is a physician who has seen young-ish and very old men with serious peen problems who have had to have procedures of the snipping variety done when they are old enough to remember it. So our little dude got the snip at around 1 week of age - I seriously think it hurt me more than it hurt him. No problems!

    Comment by perl — 6/26/2005 @ 1:41 pm

  34. DON"T DO IT!!!! I did it because Eric really held firm on this one. He would not budge. It was because some guy on his basketball team in college was not snipped and he got made fun of. By the time our children are grown, there will be many more boys who are not.

    Also, I want Jagger to have the best sex ever!

    Comment by Kellie — 6/26/2005 @ 1:47 pm

  35. We have 2 girls, but discussed it long before the babies came ;) Here in Canuckistan, it’s not considered “Medically Necessary” to have it done, so you have to pay for it.. $200.

    This, added to the fact that we’re pretty lazy people.. yeah. No circ for us (or zee hypothetical baby!). My hubby likes to joke that it must serve some sort of purpose, and if they really want to remove it after birth, maybe they should take your tonsils and appendix too :P

    *shrug* Find out what your hospital/doctor/insurance company’s policies are. In the end, it’s always a personal choice.

    Comment by Soirenoir — 6/26/2005 @ 1:54 pm

  36. Personally, I wouldn’t snip. Snipped penises creep me out, they are so “in your face". No mystery to them anymore, and I like exploring, if you know what I mean, lol. My fiancé is (fortunately) unsnipped, and so have been all the guys I’ve been with. But then I am European.

    I don’t think it’s cruel though if you decide to do it. I don’t think it’s a very traumatic operation, and best of all they won’t even remember it later on. It’s a personal decision based on personal traditions, religion, experience, preference. But there is no *medical* or *hygienic* reason to do it. They’ll just have to learn to clean it better than the snipped ones, and I rather have a very nicely cleaned unsnipped one than a hastily rinsed unsipped one, if you know what I mean.

    Comment by Q — 6/26/2005 @ 2:09 pm

  37. I have three boys and 3 very different outcomes, if I could do it over, I would leave all three alone. One went smoothly, one baby went into shock afterwards, and one only ended up 1/2 done and and has all sorts of foreskin related issues that just fill me with guilt and bring me to tears because by the time he was born I did it against my better judgement because I didn’t want him to be the odd man out.

    This article by Dr. Paul Fleiss (Yes, he is Heidi’d dad AND a highly regarded pediatrician) might help your decision:

    http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/against-circumcision.html

    Don’t believe it doesn’t hurt them when they are little, it is just that no one remembers. I would advise to leave it alone. Once it is done, you can’t change your mind.

    Comment by clickmom — 6/26/2005 @ 2:17 pm

  38. http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/against-circumcision.html

    This article by Dr Paul Fleiss (Yes, he is the notorious Heidi’s dad AND he a highly regarded pediatrician as well)

    I went through it three times, time one went somethly, with only 1 1/2 hours of crying afterwards, Time 2- had 2 hours of crying before my son went into shock. (Lasted about 6 hours) He was in absolute pain for days, whimpering, crying, and could not be touched. Time 3-I did reluctantly to make him be the same as the others, but felt in heart it was the wrong thing to do, son ended up only 1/2 done, (why? I have no idea) and he has had medical issues with the remaining foreskin since.

    I could cry every day if I let myself think about it. You can’t undo it. Let him choose, when he is older, because it does hurt the baby, he just can’t tell you.

    Comment by clickmom — 6/26/2005 @ 2:28 pm

  39. Ands,

    The clitoris actually has more sensation than the penis, and one of the reasons why people in African countries force young girls to suffer clitorectomies is because they do not want women to enjoy sex or experience pleasure. That thought process seems to have an uncanny paralell to saying, “Do they really need that much more sensation than they already get?” Sex is actually more pleasurable with an uncircumsized penis for the women as well, because the foreskin holds in vaginal moisture during intercourse. Perhaps the reason why many American men are so angry/frustrated/confused and cannot relate to women as well as many European men is because their sexuality was nipped in the bud (literally) from such an early age? As far as thinking that uncircumsized penises are ugly or resemble ’strechted butholes’– I hope you understand that your aversion to them is almost entirely conditioned, and they aren’t abnormal looking at all. If anything, an uncircumsized penis should be something to be concerned about. They both look near the same when erect anyway, which is when a woman would most likely be encountering one, right? I hope that my future husband is uncircumsized, because otherwise I would feel sorry for him somewhat.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/26/2005 @ 2:34 pm

  40. OK, I am dumb. That last sentence of mine would correctly be: “I rather have a very nicely cleaned unsnipped one than a hastily rinsed SNIPPED one…”

    Comment by Q — 6/26/2005 @ 2:35 pm

  41. Personally, I think snipped is more sexually appealing than non-snipped. Seeing flappy skin which looks like a soft ended tube is a bit nauseating to me. I know a lot of people say that it is mean and so forth but what is meaner? A few seconds of discomfort as an infant or growing up being laughed at because you are so different than others? Lets face it…society has a lot of power on our lives whether we like it or not.

    However, if you or anyone I know would decide to not do it I would respect your choice : )

    Comment by Jenn — 6/26/2005 @ 2:51 pm

  42. No snipping. My boys aren’t snipped and neither is my husband. There’s never been a cleanliness issue. They have to wash it like every other part of their body, no big deal.

    The way I look at it is…..the foreskin was put there for a reason, to protect a sensitive area. It would be like trimming off your baby’s eyelids because you thought it looked prettier.

    And the people who said ‘it hurts way more if they have to have it done later in life’….. um, how do they know? And at what point during your life does your body develop a higher pain sensory? If it fucking hurts to an adult, it fucking hurts to a baby. They just can’t tell you about it.

    Comment by kim — 6/26/2005 @ 3:05 pm

  43. Snipped. The Asshole and the boy are both snipped, and we discussed it a LOT before I made the decision. He cried for 2 seconds, I nursed him, it was over. My daughter cried harder when I pierced her ears. The cleanliness can become an issue - especially as you’re alerady not looking forward to cleaning the junk. *chuckles* aftercare is a breeze, they give you some gel to put on it so it doesn’t stick to the diaper while healing, and that’s that.

    And I gotta say - that after I had to hold down my three year old nephew to get snipped after getting repeated infections (AND my sis was fanatical about the cleaning) and had him wake up in the middle of the procedure, and for the next 3 weeks while he healed have him cry repeatedly “My auntie Lessa hurted me!” because he felt I was the one who put him in pain because I had to hold him down and was tehre when he woke up because momma broke down and couldn’t do it…

    Yeah. A few hours after birth, a snip and it’s over. I don’t EVER want to have to go through that with an older child ever again. He may have finally forgotten, but I never have.

    Comment by Lessa — 6/26/2005 @ 3:22 pm

  44. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. No snipping here if we ever have boys. It just seems unnecessary. If, somewhere down the line, he decides he’d rather be snipped, more power to him. I just don’t want to be the one to take that choice away from him.

    Comment by Poppy — 6/26/2005 @ 3:38 pm

  45. Wow SJ. I don’t know if all these comments are helping or not. It seems pretty much split in the middle.

    I’m reading a lot about people worried about kids getting laughed at. I wouldn’t worry so much about that one because it’s becoming more common for boys to be unsnipped. It’s not such a freakish thing anymore.

    Like I said, I had my son snipped and I don’t regret it. My sister in law didn’t have my nephew snipped and she hasn’t had any problems with keeping it clean.

    I will tell you that for some unknown reason they didn’t snip my son at the hospital and he had it done at his three week check up. I’ll never forget sitting in the waiting room (because they refused to let me in) hearing him scream. The receptionist said “Is that your baby back there?” I nodded. She said “Oh. He’s not crying because of pain. He’s crying because his arms and legs are tied down.” I gave her the look from hell and said “He’s THREE weeks old. He doesn’t know he has arms and legs. It’s hurting him!”

    But like I said earlier, after a couple days it was all healed and he’s fine.

    I know it’s a big issue for a lot of people and I really can’t give you very informed advice. All I can say is go with your gut instinct. You’re the mom, you know best. Whatever you decide, it will be the right decision for your family.

    Comment by Heatheranne — 6/26/2005 @ 4:17 pm

  46. Well, if I ever have a boy, I’m all for snipping. Two reasons: 1. We’re Jewish and, although unreligious, totally pro snippage. 2. The guy I lost my virginity to - unsnipped. Didn’t bother me in terms of looks or performance, but I’ve never had so many yeast infections in my life. He swore he cared for it but I can’t shake the connection.

    Comment by littlerazz — 6/26/2005 @ 4:35 pm

  47. I realize there’s no completely valid reason to snip, but I say do it anyway. Having experienced men of both varieties, I can say that snipped penises are far more beautiful. Not that I find penises particularly beautiful, but that’s a post for another time.

    Comment by Amanda — 6/26/2005 @ 5:26 pm

  48. Don’t snip. I have two non-snipped boys. The following article is my favorite circumcision article. The author (Dr. Fleiss) has never seen a boy who had to be circumcised for a medically necessary reason. All these guys who “had” to be circumcised probably went to pro-circ doctors. Had they gone to anti-circ doctors, I bet they’d still be intact.
    http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/protect-uncircson.html

    As for the 3-year old who had repeated infections despite fanatical cleaning - the infections were probably caused by the cleaning. It’d be like cleaning out under your eyelid with soap and water every day and expecting it to not get irritated and infected. The most recent medical advice on caring for uncircumcised penises is to do nothing. Before their foreskin retracts on its own, you literally do nothing more than wipe it down. Once the foreskin is fully retractable (happens anywhere from age 2-18+), you rinse it with water during the bath. It takes no longer than rinsing a circumcised penis.

    Also, SJ, I live in Houston. I’ve been a lurker for a while but haven’t commented yet.

    Comment by Katie — 6/26/2005 @ 6:29 pm

  49. Um, I don’t know if I pasted the right link in my last post. It was supposed to be this one:
    http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/protect-uncircson.html

    Comment by Katie — 6/26/2005 @ 6:33 pm

  50. D and I have decided that if Poochie is a boy he’s getting the snip. I guess I’m so mean mom who’s not cool and opened minded! Heck, I didn’t even know there was such a huge debate. S.J., you never cease to educate me!

    Comment by Emily — 6/26/2005 @ 6:38 pm

  51. I forgot to add that I have been with an unsnipped from Belgium. When he was all ready to go, if you know what I mean, it looked no different. When he was just getting out of the shower or whatever, it looked different, but not at all gross. Maybe it’s because I refuse to have a bais about it. I don’t know.

    Another thing to add. When Jagger got his done he was under 24 hours old. They took him out of my room into the nursery and wouldn’t let me in (i would never allow that now). They did the snip and Jagger was fighting so badly that he passed out. He also comited three times and was started bleeding so much that they didn’t bring him back to me for three hours. It’s not the typical reaction, but it happens.

    Also, when a grown man gets his done, he goes under general anesthetic. When a baby gets his done, he might get a topical cream or a shot to numb it (but doesn’t work great because babes still cry when it gets done). The reason the grown man get his anesthesia is becuse the pain is so bad that being awake for it is cruel and considered torture. Pull a peice of skin off your stomach, thigh, arm, whatever and then consider a pair off scissors cutting that. Remember that you have a lot less nerve endings in those spots than your son will.

    Do what is best for you guys, but stick to your guns. And, believe it or not, you are fucking crunchy. I know you are fighting it, but just give in and come over to the dark side. We are really healthy! :-)

    Comment by Kellie — 6/26/2005 @ 7:25 pm

  52. I was also sort of ambivalent about it and let the hubby decide. He voted for snipped so he’d look like “everyone else.” Whatever. It was fine…the only thing I was really concerned about was sending my brand new baby boy off to be tied down to a board and snipped without pain meds, by my OB (who is blind in one eye). GAH. THAT was hard. But I had people in my hospital room to entertain and distract me while it was happening (far far away where I couldn’t see or hear it) and he came back just fine, addicted to a binky they gave him after, but just fine. Now I’m glad we had it done… will definitely snip any future boys too. And the cleaning? It’s gross either way you go… OH and when they first come home (snipped babies, I mean) you have to keep pulling the skin back so it doesn’t grow together. Yeah, learned THAT the hard way.

    Comment by Erin — 6/26/2005 @ 7:32 pm

  53. are you really gonna get down to comment 48 and still care? well, i’ll write anyway. my boys are 4 qand 6 and neither of them are snipped. their dad was a bit ‘but he wont look like me’ at first, but i said that probably most of his friends wouldnt be snipped and he’s more likely to be standing at the urinals with his mates than his dad. and when he asked why his willy was difernt than his dad’s i told him it was because everyone is different and special in their own way, and that was one of his, as well as being smart and clever and funny yadda yadda yadda.
    he was *amazed* when he found out he could pull his foreskin back. ‘its a whole new part of my willy i never even knew was there!’

    its funny that you’re worried about cleaning poo off of boys bits, if i ever have a girl, thats the part im worried about, cleaning poo off of her girl bits.

    good luck, SJ, may the force be with you. you know, like the force of good contractions that make the baby basically fly out, that kind of force. and jedi force, cos they’re kinda cool too, and ewan mcgregor is hot, so he can come round my place and play jedi anytime.

    Comment by carly — 6/26/2005 @ 7:38 pm

  54. My husband and I talked about this when I was pregnant (though we had a girl, and of course this ended up being another one of my worry-for-nothing conversations). Though my husband is circumcised, neither of us see any reason to circumcise a baby – really, none of the arguments made any sense at all. We decided to leave the prospective penis as it was, and let our son make the decision when he got older. It’s his body, let him decide how he wants it to look. There is nothing else that parents do that permanently alters their child’s appearance – so why this?

    With all due respect to April, I do not believe for a second that it is less painful for a baby to have the operation than a grown man. It reminds me of those stories of how they used to do even serious operations on babies without anesthetic because they thought babies couldn’t feel pain. There are plenty of ways they can numb it and treat the pain later if a son takes the time to seek out a decent doctor.

    I say leave it alone, and let him choose for himself. But whatever you choose, I’m sure the decision will be right for your family.

    Comment by laura floyd — 6/26/2005 @ 7:52 pm

  55. Don’t snip. There isn’t any proven benefits. Just potential. If the fetus is a boy, then he can decide when he is older. Sure he will remember it, but at least he can get proper pain relief and be put under for the surgery.

    Comment by JH8 — 6/26/2005 @ 8:12 pm

  56. Absolutely don’t snip! You’re too smart to do that - inform yourself instead. There’s a terrific website for first-time parents, at www.circumcision.org. You’ve already realized that if you don’t do it, and on the VERY ODD chance that he wants to do it, he can. If you do it, and he regrets it, he’s stuck.

    Watch the Penn & Teller video on it. As one doc said - once you’ve seen an intact penis, nothing else looks normal. I had never seen one until I had my son, and it is beautiful. Snipped just looks sad now.

    Comment by Marilyn — 6/26/2005 @ 8:28 pm

  57. I just want to clarify something for you, there are 2 (at my hospital) methods for circumsizing. Another reason to talk to your doc. The one most of them use involves a bell clamp (looks like it sounds). Think of tying a string tightly around your finger. They put the bell on (some after anethesizing) and wait. And wait and wait and wait. The skin is good and numb before they snip it. I just don’t want you thinking they just grab a baby’s penis and start cutting around the circumference. It isn’t like that. Again, I only know what they do where I work.

    Also, truly, they start crying when you take off their diapers and restrain the legs. I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt, it probably does but the painful parts are quick and I think its managed pretty well (speaking as someone who has never had one, of course).

    Comment by Em — 6/26/2005 @ 8:34 pm

  58. Don’t snip.

    I used to be squarely in the snip-it camp, until I moved to England. There, men are decidedly unsnipped. I’m now married to a Brit, and unsnipped looks more normal to me now. So I say, why cause unnecessary pain?

    K.

    Comment by Karen — 6/26/2005 @ 8:38 pm

  59. Don’t snip.

    Circumcision is a dying trend. Here are the current stats: http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/ It’s declining every year, in all regions of the United States.

    Some other good resources:

    Mothering Magazine, “The Case Against Circumcision”: http://www.mothering.com/articles/new_baby/circumcision/against-circumcision.html

    Learn what’s really lost when the foreskin is removed. It’s a lot more than just a “extra piece of skin": http://www.norm.org/lost.html

    Dr. Sears, on circumcision: http://askdrsears.com/html/1/t012000.asp

    Men’s Health article, “Separated at Birth”: http://www.noharmm.org/separated.htm

    Vincent Black’s, “Vulnerability of Men”: http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/vincent/vulnerability_of_men.html

    VIDEOS:

    It’s not just a “little snip", circumcision requires tearing, crushing, and cutting. See for yourself:

    http://www.circumcisionquotes.com/circvid9.rm

    http://www.intact.ca/vidintro.htm

    http://www.cirp.org/library/procedure/plastibell/

    You’re baby will be born perfect and whole…circumcision isn’t medically necessary—it’s essentially cosmetic surgery. And, believe it or not the foreskin has lots of sexual functions…

    NOHARMM: Anatomy and functions of the male foreskin:
    http://www.noharmm.org/anatomy.htm

    CIRP: Anatomy of the Penis, Mechanics of Intercourse:
    http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

    CIRP: The Penis and Foreskin: Preputial Anatomy and Sexual Function:
    http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/

    If you leave his penis alone, he’ll have the option of being circumcised or not. If you have him cut…his foreskin’s gone forever.

    Jen

    (I realize that there’s links here…I hope you approve the post though. :-) Other people may find them interesting as well. And hey, you wanted opinions…lol)

    Comment by Jen — 6/26/2005 @ 8:40 pm

  60. Just to comment on what Em said, as someone who has assisted with dozens of circs…there’s three methods, Gomco, Mogen, and Plastibell. With each one, they first have to forcibly separate the foreskin from the glans (head) of the penis, which are literally fused to eachother at birth. This is kinda like tearing off a fingernail…so, that in itself hurts and creates a wound. The clamping process takes several minutes. Circumcision is never just a snip, and it takes about 10 minutes.

    Comment by Jen — 6/26/2005 @ 8:44 pm

  61. Never snip. Would you rip off part of your daughters gentalia?

    Do the research and make hub watch the videos online. And you can ALWAYS have a circ done later if your son makes the decision to do it, you can’t undo it however if something goes wrong.

    Comment by Angela — 6/26/2005 @ 9:03 pm

  62. Oooh, one more quick comment and then I’m done. The SMEGMA-thing is way blown out of proportion. Women produce smegma too…no big thing, just rinse it off and all is well. For a baby boy who’s intact, all you do is wipe off the outside like you would a finger, that’s it…nothing special…no pulling the skin back. Over time, the foreskin becomes stretchy and the strands of tissue that bond it to the glans gently and painlessly break down and disolve…and when he can retract it comfortably by himself (nobody should ever force it) that’s when he should start practicing the “Retract, Rinse, Replace” ritual, once day in the shower or bath. It’s not rocket science. It’s not unusual for retraction to not occur until puberty or mid-teens—this is completely within the realm of normal, although many US doctors will still jump the gun and call it phimosis. (insert eye roll here)

    Circumcised boys have a extremely high risk of adhesions-one study showed 71%-where the remaining bit of foreskin reattaches to the glans. Most doctors will then rip the adherred skin back during an office visit without anesthetic and instruct moms to apply vasoline as a barrier for some time, just like they did initially, to keep them from healing together. However…this way of addressing adhesions is outdated. Recent studies have shown you just leave them alone and they’ll usually resolve on their own by puberty.

    Circumcised boys also have a 9-10% risk of Meatal Stenosis, where the urethral opening (meatus) becomes ulcerated because the foreskin isn’t there to protect it from the diaper-environment. This repeated ulceration leads to scar tissue that begins to block the opening, sometimes causing urine to come out in a fine spray. My dss had this and it required surgical correction under general anesthetic.

    The fact is, no medical organization in the would recommends routine infant circumcision…

    Jen

    Comment by Jen — 6/26/2005 @ 9:10 pm

  63. Personally I was against having someone cut my son. I figured I didn’t do every thing right during my pregnancy so that I could have a perfect baby, only for someone to alter him. My husband, however, was adamant.

    For me it all boiled down to the hypothetical…what if it was girls that our society snipped or didn’t snip. If so, I can’t imagine leaving that decision up to a man. That being said, this was one of VERY FEW decisions I let me husband make for me. Seemed only right.

    That and to this day my husband and his friends still talk about the kid they called “Smegma” in high school.

    Comment by Veronica — 6/26/2005 @ 9:14 pm

  64. RE: #48

    I read EVERY comment on this site. So yes, I do care! :)

    Comment by Sarcastic Journalist — 6/26/2005 @ 9:28 pm

  65. My boys aren’t circumcised. It’s not done at all at our local hospital. If you want your son snipped you have to find a doctor willing to do it ( very rare ) and you have to pay for it. Everything else related to having a baby is free but not that. I’m surprised that it’s still popular in the US.

    I don’t think guys stand at the urinal thinking ‘Hmm he’s circumcised, Hmm he’s not’ I think they just keep their eyes down and pee otherwise you run the risk of getting your head kicked in.

    Our Aboriginal community still circumcise their boys as do our Tongan community but their boys are circumcised in their early teens as a rite of passage to manhood. The idea behind that is nothing to do with health or hygiene. It’s done because women face the pain of child birth and boys must face this pain to become a man. Interestingly both of these cultures are matriarchal. It used to be done with no anaesthetic using a sharp stone. Now teams of nurses do mass circumcisions :-)

    We do have to thank the little boys who are snipped. Their foreskins are used to grow new skin for burns victims. Thanks guys.

    And I know from experience that you do read every comment.

    Comment by brilly — 6/26/2005 @ 10:34 pm

  66. I say snip. I don’t know very many men who are unhappy with being snipped. I have , however, known several men who were not snipped and were very unhappy about it.

    Some people argue that you shouldn’t have a medical procedure performed on a child for “vanity” reasons, but isn’t getting braces the same thing?

    Also, clipped pee-pees are much better looking and eisier to clean.

    Comment by Torrie — 6/26/2005 @ 11:23 pm

  67. I don’t really know where I stand on this other than to say the one unsnipped I did see, well, I had no idea how to give him a blowjob. It just kind of freaked me out.

    I’m sure you don’t really care about that.

    But also since you live in the Whitelands, I’m sure they do them more than not. And I’m sure they’ve got the pain management down to a science.

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/26/2005 @ 11:40 pm

  68. DON’T DO IT if you have ANY doubts!!! It may be something you regret later. It’s not something you can change your mind on. I chose not to get my son snipped. I couldn’t imagine putting my son through that. It makes me want to throw up when I think about it. Pain is pain whether they will remember it or not. Also, I know a few people whose son’s had problems from their circumscision. One of them had to get surgery on it as a 2nd grader. How humiliating for a young boy….
    There is no medical reason to do it. For me, to look like Daddy is not a valid reason. My husband fought me on it at first but eventually changed his mind. Now he is proud of our decision and is anti-circ. He was convinced that people would make fun of my son and his “turtleneck.” I don’t know about you, but I was never naked in gym class and if I was, I wouldn’t go around checking out people’s junk…..Besides there will be lots of other turtles their age nowadays.
    **If you decide not to do it be prepared for everyone’s comments. I let it go in one ear and out the other.
    Maybe you’ll have another girl and this will be a non-issue! My vagina was wrong…..

    Comment by Justin’sMommy — 6/26/2005 @ 11:49 pm

  69. I’m not a freak about it, but our 3-yo is snipped. I did want him to look like his father. Some peeps are a little outta control with the preaching. Just do what you and your hubby think is right. Oh, and I think that is way yuckier to clean poop off of girl parts than boy parts.

    Comment by Kami — 6/27/2005 @ 12:09 am

  70. Honestly, how many people circumcise their son and regret it? Really, people, how many? I’ve never met one. My brother had the big “C” when he was 3. It was so much more painful looking than what my kids ( two boys, ages three and five) seemed to go through as a newborn. I requested a local for my boys, and dh went with them to have it done. It’s really not as traumatic as it may seem, *especially* as a newborn.

    Comment by Erica — 6/27/2005 @ 12:12 am

  71. I was laughing my ass of when I first read this post because I KNEW The “Militants” would come out.

    Also? It’s hilarious to read people all “DON’T SNIP IT” when you don’t even know if you’re having a boy.

    I love the internet. LOVE IT.

    SNIIIIPPPPPP ITTTTTTTTTTT. You know you want to, because my boys are snipped and you like to be just like me.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 12:26 am

  72. Hey my third comment here, are you bored of me yet? I just want to say… after reading ALL THIS… I find it truly amazing how this is even an issue here in the United States, with militant pro-people and militant contra-people and heated discussions and hard feelings.

    For all I know in Europe nobody worries about whether or not their boys will be circumsized, it usually doesn’t as much as cross the expecting parents’ mind. We just don’t snip our boys… unless we are Jewish, or unless there is a TRUE medical reason to do it, which is hardly ever the case. In reality, people look strangely at the snipped ones, not the unsnipped ones. Snipping is out of the norm, and seldomly will you see one.

    I guess I am just posting because this whole cultural difference amazes me to no end. Plus I wholeheartedly agree with “the foreskin is there for a reason". I especially like the “cutting off your baby’s eyelids because you think it looks better that way” analogy, or the “might as well take out their tonsils and appendix right away” one, whoever said that.

    SJ, whatever you decide to do if it indeed turns out to be a son, just make sure you make an INFORMED decision, whichever one it is. Arguments like “it’s prettier” or “he’ll be laughed at", or “it looks like a stretched butthole", or “girls won’t know how to give him a blowjob” hold no true merit, but if you have stronger and more convincing arguments pro circing, then by all means go for it. An educated decision is always better than one based on emotions and assumptions, I always say. :)

    Comment by Q — 6/27/2005 @ 1:14 am

  73. Did you have any idea what kind of controversy you would be causing when you asked the internets how they felt about snipping your potential baby boy’s wang? This will bring out more militants than the breast vs. bottle debate!

    We snipped. I didn’t realize when my son was born that it was even an issue. Up to that point, the only unsnipped I’d seen were in movies and his dad, my dad and my father in law are all snipped, even here on the West Coast. Really, if that’s all the ammo I give him for hating me later in life, I figure I did a damn good job of raising him and he can go buy a foreskin to reattach.

    Comment by Cori — 6/27/2005 @ 1:15 am

  74. This is fun. :-)

    Comment by Kellie — 6/27/2005 @ 3:57 am

  75. My dh is circ’ed. At first he thought we should do it and I always thought “I’d leave the decision up to the person with the penis.” HOWEVER, once I researched at www.cirp.org and elsewhere, saw how painful it was, (and my ob assured me he did NOT use pain meds) saw how much is lost to circ, knowing there is the possibility of a botch like cutting the glans, it became a NON-decision for us. The glans is supposed to be an INTERNAL organ and circ’ing messes up the natural structure of the organ. Sure, in MOST cases it’s functional, but I have also read of men who were circ’ed as adults who say sensitivity went from an 11 or 12 on a 1-10 scale, down to a 3 when they were circ’ed. Well the man who has been circ’ed from birth thinks the 3 is great, but just b/c he doesn’t know what he’s missing (and many men are figuring it out and upset about it) doesn’t mean it’s okay for me to take it away. Okay that’s my take on it. If it wasn’t supposed to be there, it wouldn’t come standard equipment on every single xy model that comes out of the showroom. I went into the non-circ (non)decision THINKING I preferred circ’ed penises to, after research and education, wishing my dh and I could have relations the way nature intended (non-circumcised.) Well we have two NON-circ’ed sons now and never a foreskin problem or uti ever; I know I would have lived to regret circing had I done it.

    Comment by Irish Mommy — 6/27/2005 @ 7:48 am

  76. I’m having a boy in November and was also on the fence about it. Then I read Dan Savage’s column about snipping gone wrong:

    http://www.villagevoice.com/people/0443,savage,57819,24.html

    *shudder* Okay, strong argument for not snipping! Besides, what does it matter if my kid’s mother thinks his unsnipped bits look weird? I mean, really, I’m not the target audience, am I?

    But I’ve been really interested to read everyone’s pros and cons.

    Comment by Kelly — 6/27/2005 @ 8:16 am

  77. Image shmimage. Religion Shmeligion. Smegma Shmegma.

    The only GOOD reason to cut off a boy’s foreskin is for him to look nice beside his labia-trimmed sister.

    This is refuckingDICKulous.

    Comment by peefer — 6/27/2005 @ 8:27 am

  78. Don’t do it. Better sex for him later on (the snipped have scar tissue at some of the most sensitive places). Seen both, doesn’t compare, methinks. But then again, I am European (but used to live in the US).

    Also, agree with many commenters above: why would you perform a senseless, useless, unnecessary surgery on your son’s probably most sensitive body part??? So some mid-Westerners wouldn’t laugh at him? Just teach him to laugh right back at them.

    Comment by steph — 6/27/2005 @ 8:42 am

  79. I allowed my son’s father to make the choice, figuring that he was more of a penis expert than myself. He opted for snipped (like himself). His justification? “It’s harder to stay clean if you’re not circ’ed, and men are all about lazy.” He then also found some statistic about how you can only contract penile cancer if you’re un’circed. There hasn’t been a single documented case of it in a circ’ed male.

    Penile cancer is pretty rare, but as a friend said, “Sure, it’s quite rare. But wouldn’t it suck to be the one who gets it when being circ’ed could’ve removed the possibility?”

    Comment by Mir — 6/27/2005 @ 8:50 am

  80. My husband (circumcized) and I had this debate before our son was born. We were also concerned about “looking like Daddy” issues and “being taunted by jerks” issues. But we also tend to be a bit more anti-unnecessary surgery types too.

    Ultimately, we decided to leave it alone (The word intact is preferred to uncircumcised. It’s not “un” anything) and have never regretted it. Cleaning has never been an issue (we don’t do anything special) and my son has no problems with not identifying with his father’s circumsized penis. They still shared a toilet during potty training etc… As far as what others will say: Kids will always find something to tease about and my son will know enough to say: Bite me! anyway. Every kid has sonmething “different” about them. Kids are creative.

    Afterward, his father then read more about circumcision and finally linked it to some of his own penile issues. While he did not have a “botched” circumcision he now realizes what he lost in the process and how it likely effected his sexuality, and he is bitter. Not at his mom, she didn’t know better. Bitter that the information wasn’t available for her to make a truly informed consent to have it done to him.

    So, I ultimately just want you to know, I respect you for making an informed decision, regardless of what you decide to do. Good for you!

    Comment by imagine-create-become — 6/27/2005 @ 8:54 am

  81. Snip it. Elephant trunks are ugly. Your kid will thank you later in life when he’s in bed pounding some hot chick and she comments on his lovely penis.

    Comment by Susan — 6/27/2005 @ 9:24 am

  82. 4 year old - snipped
    2 year old - not

    We’ve had a LOT of problems with the 4 year old. At one point, his penis had scabbed shut. The ped diagnosed meatal stenosis. We have to put aquaphor on him when he’s diapered (at night), and watch him pee on a regular basis to be sure he’s not hiding anything.

    The intact 2yo? Rinse it and forget it.

    Comment by Emily — 6/27/2005 @ 9:26 am

  83. Totally got Munchkin snipped. It was no big deal. He never had a problem, except now his “twig” holds his constant attention. Of course, I’ve been told that’d be the case even if he wasn’t “snipped". Still? Snip it. It’s easier to take care of that way. Trust me. (Even though you don’t know me and have no reason to trust anything I have to say.)

    Comment by Queen of Ass — 6/27/2005 @ 9:30 am

  84. OH MY GOD.

    Seriously. Comparing snipping foreskin to CUTTING OFF EYELIDS!?!

    Ah, overdramatics.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 9:32 am

  85. Third and last (I promise) comment. I looked at some of the links and I need to take issue with them. Captioning a picture of a crying baby “Picture of a baby being sexually mutilated” . That is disturbing. The thing is, without the inflammatory words, its just the picture of a crying baby.

    It isn’t my business either way what you do with your son and I don’t think your son will regret either decision. His penis will be the one he has always known. He won’t wish it was different later. He won’t. I just don’t like people being horrified into one decision over another.

    Comment by Em — 6/27/2005 @ 9:44 am

  86. I’ve spent a lot of time recently discussing this and am firmly in the don’t snip category - for all the reasons mentioned here already. (I’m sure - geez! 80 comments!) I could go one but as # 81, or maybe 90 by the time I hit “Say It!” I’ll leave it to the others for now.

    Comment by martha — 6/27/2005 @ 9:54 am

  87. Yeah, thanks for that, Em. Seriously. We had both of our sons circumsized right after birth. They cried for a few seconds and it was overwith. And GUESS WHAT? Never once in their entire life have they brought it up. Never once have they come to me and say WHY DID YOU MUTILATE MY PENIS? WHY DID YOU STOP THERE? WHY NOT MY EEEYYEEEEELLLLIDDDS?

    This is what happens when you ask the internet what to do with your potentially male’s penis.

    Now? if you do have a boy and you do snip it? The internet is going to hate you and call you names.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 9:55 am

  88. Good lord I didn’t know this was such a hot subject to some people. This is quite amusing. Although I find those uncircumsized pictures I saw at that foreskin.org page disturbing. I actually had nightmares because of that.

    Comment by NinaKaye — 6/27/2005 @ 10:16 am

  89. From what I’ve been told, an unsnipped penis is prone to more infection than a snipped penis.

    Comment by Fireladie — 6/27/2005 @ 10:25 am

  90. Y, hell yeah!! After all… the internet needs something to hate us for!! We’ve gotten into this debate on message boards, and even in a really well-moderated board, where flaming will get you deleted, these women were calling people who circ mutilators, and comparing it to lopping off a females genetailia. The female mutilation in Africa is usually done in the pre-teens, on a rock, with a razor blade. Somehow I see the difference.

    Comment by Crystal — 6/27/2005 @ 10:48 am

  91. When I found out our 2nd was to be a boy, I cried. And cried. I cried for 3 hours straight because I was scared to death of the PENIS! A boy? What the heck do I do with a boy????? Now I can’t imagine life without him. I have my dramatic little girl and my clown of a boy. Life is good.

    As for the Big C…we left him as is. Hubster is snipped but he said he couldn’t imagine cutting off a piece of skin or appearance sake. He had a pretty heated debate with friends of ours when they had their son and they did snip..so he would look like Daddy. Yah..never seen men comparing. And if they did..Ewwww!!!!

    I went with the fact that we don’t cut out tonsils at birth because they “MIGHT” become infected later in life.

    So my boy is Mr. Snuffalupagus and he loves it…really…he’s not even two and it’s his favourite bath toy.

    Comment by Terri — 6/27/2005 @ 10:55 am

  92. Wow, the whack jobs are coming out of the woodwork arnt they. So let me say short but sweet. It is your choice for your son (to be) so make up your own mind.
    I had pretty much decided not to snip my son when he was born and the choice became not a choice since he had to have it done for medical reasons. Anyone out there says it never has to be done is full of crap. Tell em to look up hyperspadius (I think thats how it is spelled) We were lucky in that it was an easy fix for my son since they had some skin they could work with, namely the forskin. But anyways, it is YOUR choice so enjoy the freaks and give their comments the exact amount of weight it deserves… the same as the lady behind you in the checkout line.

    Comment by Chuck — 6/27/2005 @ 11:02 am

  93. Yeah. This is commented out. I need some egg recipes damn you all! Why can’t there be controvesy over egg whites vs. yolks.

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 11:16 am

  94. Puh-leeze. 89 comments for a penis they will never see? I love the internet. Everyone is a better parent, more important, and knows more than me. I don’t know how I was able to walk around and function before there were people on the internet to tell me what to do and how to do it. A baby is “snipped” when he’s a day old. He doesn’t remember, and no amount of research can prove to me he does. And I seriously doubt he will end up in therapy later in life with some sort of freudian complex, blaming his parents for his circumcised penis. I hate my mother! She took my foreskin! (Man, I miss blogging)

    Comment by trish — 6/27/2005 @ 11:25 am

  95. Has anyone noticed how the people who do not wish for SJ’s son to be mutilated tend to have better spelling/grammar and present their arguments in rational sentences, while the people who do want him to be mutilated tend to overly use capitalization and exclamation points, with no real reason to back up their arguments? Hmm… I am also confused at how some could say that it’s ‘her decision’. I mean, I know it’s her decision on what to dress him in, what to watch on television, what church to go to, or what to name him, and I know that LEGALLY is it her decision to cut off a valuable section of this person’s penis– but really, should it be anyone’s decision but his when he is able to make one? Would it be someone’s decision to slice off girls’ labia skin if that was legal, or would that just be a gross misuse of parental power?

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 11:29 am

  96. I can’t spELL RightS BECuase I"M A MUltilATOR OF COCKS!!!!1!

    Again, I LOVE THE INTERNET AND THE MILITANTS AND PEOPLE LIKE BRANDI!

    Because, she can’t even see that I am not taking this seriously AT ALL.

    BRANDI IS BETTER THAN ME!

    I lUVZ Teh INTerNETS!11!!!!!

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 11:39 am

  97. Snip for the snip reasons above ;)

    Comment by Kelly — 6/27/2005 @ 11:48 am

  98. re: post #69 - My first son was circ’ed and I regret it.

    My second son is uncirc’ed. I am planted firmly in the ‘don’t do it’ camp but I don’t think you (general) are a horrible parent if you do. My only wish is that people don’t do it “just so he’ll look like ____", for love the of God. Please, if you are going to circ your son, at least do it for a good, solid reason. Hopefully, in the end, that will balance everything out and neither option will seem weird.

    Comment by Eden — 6/27/2005 @ 11:48 am

  99. You go, Y, with your snippy self. sNiP DAWG. U R 2 KEWL.

    Comment by trish — 6/27/2005 @ 11:49 am

  100. Has anyone noticed how the people who do not wish for SJ’s son to be mutilated tend to have better spelling/grammar and present their arguments in rational sentences, while the people who do want him to be mutilated tend to overly use capitalization and exclamation points, with no real reason to back up their arguments? Guess that supports the expression of where a man’s brain is . . .

    Comment by trish — 6/27/2005 @ 11:53 am

  101. My boyfriend is intact and quite happy with it. I don’t think he ever got made fun of and he quite good at keeping it clean.

    I don’t really know the history, but I have heard that circumcision was pretty rare until it was popularized as a method to keep boys from masturbating. It is harder to masturbate if you are cut. If you are intact, the extra skin provides room for movement, but if you are cut you have to use lotion or something. The claim that it is cleaner historically refers to moral cleanliness, i.e. men who are cut won’t touch themselves in that dirty way.

    Comment by karen — 6/27/2005 @ 11:57 am

  102. Maybe Y regrets doing it to her sons deep down and has no way to cope with it except the way she is when she posts her comments. It’s okay, Y, you were a young, ill-informed mother. There are millions of others like you.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 12:11 pm

  103. Woo - 102nd

    Here you go, ya fanatics:

    I was trying to google ‘born without eyelids’ because I think the whole foreskin/eyelid analogy is half cracked. You can’t live without eyelids; however, you CAN live without foreskin. I was going to post that, but know that the freaks on your blog would just say, no, my nephew’s uncle’s daughter was born without eyelids and she survives to this day.

    So, upon Googling - All I found was this joke which included both skins. Felt it was appropriate to send your way:

    2402. The delivery room

    The turmoil of the delivery room changed into silence and bewilderment as the newborn emerged from its mother. The doctor had no previous knowledge or historical case studies to aid him in diagnosing the situation at hand, as he stared at the new born boy, dumb-founded. The boy was born without eyelids! Time was critical. The doctor assembled the top residents in the hospital to determine a course of action, for the baby’s sight was truly in peril. A decision was made. The boy would have his penis circumcised and the foreskin removed from his penis would be surgically reconstructed into eyelids. After ten hours in the operating room the doctors emerged. By this time the word of the baby boy born without eyelids had spread throughout the city. News reporters and all concerned gathered around the doctors, anticipating the outcome of the surgery. The doctors collectively agreed the operation was a success and a monumental achievement in reconstructive surgery. The crowd cheered and embraced one another. Reporters scribbled down notes and took pictures. Suddenly, from the back of the crowd a question emerged: Will there be any long-term side affects of this operation? The pandemonium of the jubilant crowd subsided. The silence was nervously painstaking as the doctors stared at each other. The doctors’ heads nodded in unison and one doctor came forth. Yes, replied the Doctor, there will be one side affect.

    The boy’s a little Cock-eyed!

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 12:29 pm

  104. Oh man, Brandi is AWESOME. She is the reason I love the internet!

    Actually, everyday when I wake up, I think about how glad I am that I snipped them because MAN I’d hate to see the looks on people’s faces when they see the pictures of my boys weiners hanging on the wall in the hallway if they had all that extra skin hanging off!

    Thank God for making decisions while drunk!

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 12:30 pm

  105. EVERYONE PLAY NICE. THIS IS A HYPOTHETICAL WEINER WE ARE SPEAKING OF.

    Comment by Sarcastic Journalist — 6/27/2005 @ 12:32 pm

  106. by “Everyone” you mean “brandi” right? Because, where do you see ME calling people names and insulting them? HUH?

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 12:33 pm

  107. SJ Honey, they are all hypothetical weiners. Even after their 40th birthdays.

    Now. For the egg recipes!

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 12:41 pm

  108. You are right about social mores, here in Los Angeles virtually no one gets their sons circumcised -even our Jewish friends are starting to stop getting their sons done. We are Jewish and while we are more observant than most of our friends who are “cultural Jews” we are certainly not very religious. -and yet, to me it was an important ritual to observe, which is kind of silly since if we had had girls we would have simply had a baby naming and the non-invasive rituals associated with that. I have no rationale for why having a bris was important to me, but it was, in the same way their having a bar mitzvah will be. Both my husband and I were very emotional at each one of our son’s bris - it was powerful to participate in a tradition that bound us to our ancestors.

    Niether one of them cried at all when during the ceremony- I owe that entirely to the mohel that performed the ritual. For non-Jewish boys it is the ob/gyn who does the cutting, because they are done so infrequently here I would be very nervous having her do it. The mohel does at least one a day and was also a urologist so I felt very comfortable with his doing it.

    All this said, if I were not a Jew I would not have it done. I did it only because of that; Europeans have lived thousands of years without getting it done, their dicks didn’t fall off. It it purely an American asthetic, not based on medical necessity. Most pediatrician don’t recommend them.

    All that said, it is a deeply personal decision and one that only you can make. If you are having a boy, you’ll do what feels right at the time; knowing whatever decision you make isn’t that big of a deal.

    Comment by Mieke — 6/27/2005 @ 1:08 pm

  109. I’m trying to decide this myself… !!!

    Comment by Sara — 6/27/2005 @ 1:10 pm

  110. I couldn’t get through all the comments, particularly when they devolved into name calling.

    The facts, all things being equal (meaning there is not immediate medical condition for which removal of the foreskin is recommended such as Hypospadius, which my son has/had) there is not one single reason to recommend snipping.

    A rundown of various reasons for snipping, refuted:
    Look just like dad: Do you often, as an adult, sit back and think about your mother’s vagina, and hope yours looks just like it? Yeah, I thought not.
    It’s cleaner: Dirty is as dirty does - if you raise your son to be skanky, his dick will gross whether he has foreskin or not.
    Girls like cut penises: If your son falls in love with a woman who looks at his dick and either cringes or laughs, your son has fallen in love with an asshole and should run far, far away from that heartless bitch. Personally, if I had a choice, I’d go for the penis that comes with its own toys.
    Less hypothetical urinary tract infections: I have had a lot of UTIs in my lifetime. Not once did I consider removal of my labia as an acceptible preventative measure.
    As the parent, it’s your choice: Since you don’t own the penis, do not make irreversible decisions about it that are not imminently medically nescessary. Think like a doctor: DO NO HARM.
    Cut is less ugly: Honestly, is the aesthetic beauty of each and every individual penis an issue? Do sons sit in their rooms wondering “is it sexy looking?” I’m thinking there are other concerns rather than looks. As a sexually active person, are you really in a lot of situations where your penis will be hanging out for people to evaluate? Does that evaluation actually have anything to do with anything?

    It is my personal belief that routine genital surgery performed with no medical indications is scary wrong. I’m glad nobody took a scalpel to me after I was born, just because “everybody does it", “it looks better” or “why not".

    Daddy Types has a post about this from a men’s perspective. Some of the comments are pretty good. I have comments in that thread.

    Comment by momcast — 6/27/2005 @ 1:31 pm

  111. I really didn’t mean to insult anybody at all and apologize if it seemed that way. What I meant by saying that people who are against penis mutilation spell better and present more rational arguments, is that it seems they are the better informed, thoughtful, considerate people who realize it’s not their penis to cut. It seems like the ones who think it’s okay or should remain legal also happen to not know how to present their opinions in a justifiable way at all, which makes me think they haven’t thought things through enough. I am not blaming anybody, because I am well aware of how issues like these are not discussed enough. If anything, the ’system’ should be blamed for allowing this to happen for so long. This is our sexuality we’re talking about, which is supposed to be one of the best things about life, right? As far as being called a ‘militant,’ is there a problem with having a strong opinion about something as serious as this issue? Wouldn’t the abolitionists of slavery (I’m not comparing circumcision to slavery) be called militants, or the humanitarians who are working daily to stop female circumcisions in Africa? Don’t you, Y, think that you’re being a bit militant yourself? Also, the internet is the place where we are able to express ourselves most, which is what I was doing,so why must you speak of it so badly? The people who are against circumcision aren’t psychotic, radical internet voices. We genuinely care about the well-being of people who can’t yet make choices as serious as this one for themselves. As far as your sons not complaining about being cut– perhaps they would if they knew how much more they could have had if they hadn’t been. Maybe when they’re older, they will understand the negative consequences of circumcision. Obviously many men do, and obviosly many people wish they could reverse it.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 2:07 pm

  112. So I noticed in one of the comments that a person said their isn’t one documeneted case of penile cancer in a circ’ed man. That is a lie. If anyone looks at the acs website you will see that they state that circumcision is not recommended in the prevention of penile cancer. That is a myth. For those of you saying the whackos came out. SJ asked for people to put their opinions down. So people have been. Just because those opinions goes against what you believe in doesn’t make them weird or cookie. Don’t call my kids penis an elephant trunk if you don’t want me to call your kid sexually mutilated. 85% of the worlds men are intact. 15% aren’t, what does that tell you? That circumcision is *rare.

    Comment by JH8 — 6/27/2005 @ 2:09 pm

  113. i’m childfree, so i guess i really shouldn’t comment, but i guess if i ever was going to have a child and if that child was a boy, i would not have him snipped. my fiance agrees. only because if when he gets older and want to be circumcised, he can be. i guess i’d just want him to make that decision on his own, you know?
    but i’m not a mom and i won’t ever be one, so my comment really isn’t all that valid. but when have you ever known me to NOT butt my fat ass into a discussion on penis? ;)

    Comment by honey bunny — 6/27/2005 @ 2:29 pm

  114. I actually have a great deal of respect for people who are passionate about issues. I do not, however, have respect for people who belittle people who do not feel the same way that they do on an issue. I do not respect people who call people who don’t feel the same way as they do “uniformed". I do appreciate people who use scare tactics and use “militant” type language (For instance, using the word “mutilate” when referring to circumcision.) to intimidate others into feeling the same way on an issue.

    I used to be one of those people (anti abortion) then I grew up and realized it’s not my place to judge others about such personal matters.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 2:43 pm

  115. I have to admit I’m finding it interesting that most Canadians who are commenting are saying that we don’t snip. Both of my brothers are snipped, but neither of them has had their sons snipped. Not because of any of the usual issues - like cleanliness, or because they regret that they were snipped, but more because they didn’t want to go through the bother. I know one of the deciding factors for my sister-in-law was that by not circumcising, she didn’t have an area that needed to be cleaned and disinfected etc. (I’m not saying she doesn’t clean the kids willie, I’m just saying she didn’t want to have to find the time to look after her older toddler and manage a disinfecting regimen on the baby, even though I think it was just slathering some extra salve on). My boyfriend is not circumcised and you can’t really tell whether he is or isn’t when he’s happy … meaning the aesthetic is the same. I think that anyone’s choice that they made in this matter is valid. If someone is happier having their child circumcised then that is fine. Comparing this to a clitorectomy is comparing apples to oranges. When a clitorectomy is done, the girl has NO clitoris left! There is no feeling, because there is nothing there to feel! On top of that other gruesome things are done to prevent the girl from enjoying vaginally, so don’t compare that to circumcision. Trust me, being an adult woman I am well aware that circumcised men still have feeling as much as un-circumcised men. Last thing, disrespecting another persons choice is ignorant and unnecessary. Saying that someone was a young mother and didn’t know any better simply demonstrates your own ignorance and intolerance.That is all.

    Comment by Anna — 6/27/2005 @ 2:46 pm

  116. Yes, but I do believe saying you ‘grew up’ was a subtle form of belittlement, claiming that I’m immature for calling it ‘mutilation’. It is multilation, if one was to look up the word. I don’t believe myself to be any less ‘grown-up’ than you for using this word, and I don’t mean for it to be a scare tactic. Circumcision is literally mutilation. Also, many see it as a personal issue in a different way than others. I (and many others) believe that it is a personal issue for the person who’s attached to the penis, and no one (not even his parents) else’s choice, just as it shouldn’t be anyone else’s choice to cut off parts of the vagina, other than the female who’s attached to it. And, yes, I do think that people who believe circumcision should remain legal are generally uninformed. There’s nothing to be ashamed of about being uninformed, as long as one is trying to change. If you look at the comments from both sides, there is a noticable difference in tone, and I don’t think mothers who get their sons circumsized are nearly as educated on the subject as those who don’t.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 2:56 pm

  117. Brandi, to each their own. Parents make decisions for babies from the moment they are conceived. From what a pregnant woman eats, to breast feeding, to where to send them to school, what type of car seat they buy, or sports or band camp.

    Some are good, some are bad, but I think you are acting like a dick by trying to say that some aren’t as well educated or informed as YOU are. And yes, I am actually well informed on this subject and educated. I just don’t feel the need to shove my degree in someone else’s face.

    Circumcision isn’t done with a rusty razor in a back alley somewhere. And granted some may think of it as mutilation, there are plenty of people (with or without a penis) that don’t think it’s that big of a deal. You can post articles and links galore, but it’s not like that’s going to make hospitals and some Jews stop because “Brandi said so.” Just because someone chooses to go through with it doesn’t mean they are uninformed, because basically they made a choice to do it.

    It’s not a war, just a difference of opinion. No need to get all uppity and condescending here.

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 3:11 pm

  118. Oh, great post and great comments. I’m in the same boat… I’m also PG and terrified it’s a boy and that I’ll have to battle my husband on this issue. My DH is snipped, and he assumed the immediate answer was “snip it” so he’ll look like daddy. He never knew that the origins of the procedure were religious, and that it’s been justified in the literature over the last few hundred years as a reason to prevent rampant masturbation. It’s the same crazy reason they’re mutilating women’s clitorises in Africa… to prevent female pleasure. I’ve done the research on this, including seeing a lot of the anti-circ links listed here, and I will show him before we ever have to make that decision. I think he’ll see reason… you shouldn’t cut off a part of your child’s body for some reason as stupid as aesthetics. It can never be gotten back. And who knows, maybe 20 years from now my child will fall in love with a Canadian or European where the circ rates are almost non-existent. Just doesn’t seem like a decision that’s mine to make. Or my husband’s. So I say INTACT.

    Comment by Kat — 6/27/2005 @ 3:24 pm

  119. HA. Oh man, ok. I used the term “grew up” because I was 16 when I used to go to anti abortion rallies. So, I meant, I literally grew up.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 3:32 pm

  120. And, I’m so over it now, it’s been hilarious, though.

    Comment by Y — 6/27/2005 @ 3:33 pm

  121. I have a girl…but my cousin had a boy and when she did I really started thinking about if I would or not. After doing lots of research I came to the conclusion that I cant believe I ever thought I would Circ. I didnt know anything about it and I wanted him to look like his dad, daddy said he wanted it done. But after I read all the info…I have totally changed my mind and my hubbys! There is just no reason for it…the biggest reason why I wont do it is because research has shown that men that are circd lose almost half of thier sensation…would you want that? Plus, it doesnt look any different from our mans when they have any erection. I am not going to cut off my childs weiner just to conform to society! The main reason I have heard that they continue to do circs even though they are not needed is because it is a 3 million a year practice…you think those docs want to lose that kind of money? Even the american board of pediatrics says they do not recommend it anymore! Here is the best link I found! Check this out!
    http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/circumci.html

    Comment by Lisa — 6/27/2005 @ 3:35 pm

  122. One more thing…I just went back and read everyones opinions. I am shocked by how many say SNIP! Then there reason is because of the way it looks. OK remember one thing. only 50 percent of people are circing nowdays so by the time your baby is a man…he will not be a freak and all the women he is with will think its normal.

    Comment by Lisa — 6/27/2005 @ 3:42 pm

  123. Wait.

    Am I in Dooce’s comment section?

    Comment by Torrie — 6/27/2005 @ 3:43 pm

  124. No, in this case, it is not ‘to each their own’. I gaurantee than in one hundred years or so, this will be illegal, and most people will laugh at the idea. I am not being condescending, and this is more than just an opinion when it comes down to law-making in a country…and I haven’t posted any links. Other people have– people who have educated themselves on it. I am also not the only one who ’says so,’ and I promise you hospitals and jews will stop, because educated individuals, myself being one of them, give rational reasons. This is comparable to clitorectomies also, just on a much smaller scale. Uncut men do feel more than cut men. This argument wouldn’t even be an issue if we were talking about females.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 3:44 pm

  125. i’m not sure about this one. hubby’s snipped, but i’ve seen both snipped and unsnipped up close and in all honesty, looks-wise, it makes no dif to me; either way them penises are pretty darn ugly lookin’…but they’re not there for us to really look at, are they? ;-)

    anyway, i like the cleanliness aspect because men are notorious for neglecting personal hygiene, so why add to their burden, but then on some intuitive level, even though the guy will never remember the instance of the procedure, i can’t help wondering if it does inflict some deep psychological/emotional blow…i think it doesn’t serve us well to be so flip about this procedure. but ultimately it’s a personal decision that each parent has a right to make for themselves - i’m gonna cross that bridge if i ever get to it. :-)

    Comment by frozenmojo — 6/27/2005 @ 4:06 pm

  126. Can’t believe I forgot to add: my son SLEPT through the procedure.

    Comment by Darcie — 6/27/2005 @ 4:17 pm

  127. Yes Brandi i am sure every uncut man has told you he felt more. And he also said you were the best he ever had.. Hmm oh wait men LIE. You know I used to have a dog named Brandy, but I was uncouth and spelled it with a y. You and let me repeate this, YOU are not educated unless you got one. So chill out and go find pick on Mom’s who dree their kids in blue or somthing. Christ.. I can gaurantee only that in 100 years you will be dead and you wont care anymore, so shut up will you? you convinced no one, and just put people off, your the type of activist everyone is so sick of it is scary, christ, just do somthing usefull to mankind.
    Oh sorry SJ, I was a tad rude, but hell to get the statistical references she makes she must have had most of Chicago in her bed.

    Comment by Chuck — 6/27/2005 @ 4:23 pm

  128. P.S. Brandi with an I. I have 5 boys and one girl, want to bet who knows more about kids cleanliness????

    Comment by Chuck — 6/27/2005 @ 4:30 pm

  129. >>

    Chuck that is false. A person does not have to have a penis to be educated about a penis. I understand that you have five children but that does not make you a higher authority to discuss this topic. Many Obgyns are males, yet they deal with only women and women issues, right? Research has shown that there are no proven benefits, just potential benefits. No organization in the world recommends circ. People who circ aren’t horrible parents, however and I haven’t seen anyone really degrade people who circ, besides one poster. I have seen the pro snip side state mean things about the foreskin. Respect needs to come from both sides. So if you want respect Chuck, you might as well have some for other posters. For raising five kids, you’d figure you would understand that simple concept in life. Treat others as you would like to be treated.

    Comment by JH8 — 6/27/2005 @ 4:44 pm

  130. Eh. I’m not sluttish, so that comment didn’t insult me. I thought it was lame. You seem to have a lot of anger issues. You also probably conditioned your children differently depending on their sex, so that’s why one is more cleanly. Also, one doesn’t need to have a penis to read facts about foreskin and nerve endings. You won’t care in 100 years either, so why are you arguing now? And Debutant– parents may makes decisions on what school to send their children to or what car seat to buy, but it is still the law to send their children to school (or homeschool) and to put them in car seats. There are limits to parental control– some that need to be changed. I’d like to guess Chuck to have an I.Q. somewhere in the 90-110 range. Sorry for the low-blow, but it had to be said. Anyway, the facts are present if one looks.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 4:45 pm

  131. Chuck, did you realize that you only have 5 kids? I guess that one girl doesn’t count.

    Get over yourselves people. I dunno, my guy says that it feels plenty good as it is, so I doubt he feels traumatized or that he’s missing out on that extra stimulation something something.

    But that’s just dumb ol’ unedumacated me.

    Guess all the Dooce weirdos came over here since she closed down her comments.

    Sorry, SJ. I hope you have a girl. Sisters are fun.

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 4:47 pm

  132. Brandi, are you a stripper?

    Because educated parents don’t name their children Brandi. Oh. Wait. Sorry for the low blow. And for trying to tell people to lighten up in the SJ commento section. Because obviously Brandi can’t take a hint.

    Get a life and stay out of others. I don’t think parents need any more control than what is already in place. It’s a choice. You choose for your child, and let others decide for themselves, ya rabid anti-snip woman. Didn’t you read how that one reader’s child SLEPT through it?

    And please. Don’t forget your vitamins when you dine on the delicacy that is foreskin.

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 4:53 pm

  133. My mom didn’t get my brother cut. Two reasons she mentioned to us.

    1) not nessary

    2) so if he neglected to keep himself cleaned, he would learn horribly how painful it could be to keep his “mansword” in places later in life that would not dull his “blade”

    She also mentioned later on (like a few years ago to me) that his father was the best she ever had. And he was not cut all up. I told her if I heard one more thing about what sex was like with who she had been with one more time I was going to stick my finger down my throat and toss my cookies all over her. She laughed. I wretched and had nightmares for weeks off and on. My brother (now that we are both older and siblings can talk about these things easier to one another then hearing such things from your mother and all) said he was happy he wasn’t fixed. I never asked him why. I don’t think I really want to either.

    Don’t know what I would decide (I’d prolly let Hubs decide on that one) if I had a boy. But, no matter. I’m thinking I might be done with having kids. At least for a few years. O.o I hope anyhow.

    Comment by Tracy — 6/27/2005 @ 4:56 pm

  134. You’re doing the same thing I am, Debutant. What validation do you have telling me to ‘get a life’? It may legally be a choice, but really, what right does anybody have? That child may have slept through it, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s not going to enjoy sex as much when grown. It is well-known that people who gather more information about things live better lives– eat healthier, are in shape, live longer– have foreskins. Have you noticed a link between test scores in the Midwest/South vs. the coasts and European countries and foreskins? ;D I am Midwestern, but I am talking about a general population of people.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 5:11 pm

  135. Brandi, please, for the love of my foreskin … get off the internet and come save me from the uninformed people!

    Comment by A Terrified Cock. — 6/27/2005 @ 5:12 pm

  136. Get a life that doesn’t consist of telling people what they should do with their own children. Emphasis on *their own.* I prefer the snip, but if you don’t float that way, more power to you. I won’t try to tell you what to do with your kid’s dick.

    Are you on a mission to save the cock? You should start a non profit foundation or something. savetheskin.org

    And this concludes our program. I’m glad I don’t have a comment stalker. I’m also glad my child has girl bits.

    Oh, and “hi there” SJ!

    Comment by debutaunt — 6/27/2005 @ 5:17 pm

  137. My hubbie and son are snipped, I’ve seen an upsnipped when I babysat my friend’s infant son & I was not fond of the way it looked (just my opinion).

    On another note, it’s funny that you are scared of cleaning the twigs and berries. I’m the opposite, I’m preggo w/ baby girl and I"m scared to death of cleaning her, the twig and berries is easy!

    Comment by Stacey — 6/27/2005 @ 5:18 pm

  138. SJ, you really opened up a can of worms, it seems! Not surprising - this is a hot topic for many. I have two men in my life with whom I am quite familiar with their “man parts": my husband and my son (who is 4). My husband was born in Europe to a European dad and was therefore left “au naturale". He admits to being a minority in the boys locker room as the vast majority of his peers were circumcised. It was just what you did in America in the 70’s, Jewish or not. He was the first uncirc. man I’d been with and at first it sort of freaked me out. During the sex, you can’t tell, but when he’s NOT aroused it was….different. But it didn’t belong to me and was completely functional, so whatever. And then we had our son. And we live on the West Coast, where it is becoming more the norm to leave your son “as is". The circ. kids are now the minority. But that wasn’t our rationale. It just seemed like a foreskin was there for a reason. My husband will say that it’s a natural protector of the sensitive parts of his penis and prevents clothing from dulling any sensations. It’s also a natural, um, lube? when the need arises for such a thing (ha!). So it’s all good.

    But that doesn’t solve your problem. Whether circ or uncirc., it’s just STRANGE to clean poop off twigs and berries! Good luck.

    Comment by mp — 6/27/2005 @ 5:19 pm

  139. Debutant calls me a stalker, and yet comments almost as much as I do? It’s not your penis though. People don’t own their children’s genitles…they shouldn’t anyway. I am repeating myself. So is everyone else. I wonder if SJ has decided to do it or not.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 6:00 pm

  140. Gee, we don’t even know if SJ is having a boy yet, so I guess it will be a while before anyone knows. Oh, and when she finally does find out, (and if she is nice enough to post the sex of her baby), she can once again have over 130 comments posted on her site. Yeah, SJ!
    Oh, and as a teacher, I take great offence at the whole south vs. other parts of the globe “test scores” comparison. I’m not trying to make more drama (because obviously there is plenty), but test scores don’t necessarily equate with the true intelligence of a person….as demonstrated on this comment section. (badum bum!)
    p.s.- Yes, you can spell offence with a “c” or an “s.”
    p.p.s.-Oh and SJ, I love the new quote at the top of the page. Didn’t you just want to smack him when he was being so rude to poor Matt?

    Comment by Dee — 6/27/2005 @ 6:25 pm

  141. Yes you are right my IQ is about 105 or so. You can tell because I have 6 (that is six) kids, a 3/4 million dollar house and support my family mostly by working 4 hours a day, and live in the safest place to raise a family. Damn but I am stupid I should work 12 hours a day and live in an apartment in NYC.
    Oh and as a side note I raised my son for a year by myself and I got the same useless fems scream at me cause I did not breast feed him. They never did explain how I was supposed to do it on my own though. Oh and for the record, our kids have a parent home 24 hours a day, do not have sitters and do everything with us, it is called a family. Used to piss me off the same militant fems who would give me crap dropped their kids off at daycare at 7 am everyday. So in short, attack others if you feel a need to waste their time and mine, but you want to take me on you better be smarter than I am and bring big guns. I eat people like you for lunch and then fire them for desert. You want respect and for people to listen to you views? Then earn it and get your own soap box. Go talk crazy somewhere else we are all sold up here.

    Comment by Chuck — 6/27/2005 @ 7:10 pm

  142. HAhahAHAHAHa… Hey, did you know that some men lactate and nurse babies? Have you ever tried that, Chuckie?

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 7:15 pm

  143. Brandi - With respect to your self righteous, judgmental, condescending, and generally obnoxiously phrased comments (sorry, but you started it):

    Regarding the following, which I quote from you: “Has anyone noticed how the people who do not wish for SJ’s son to be mutilated tend to have better spelling/grammar …”

    I would like to point out to you that the correct spelling for the general term that applies to private parts is “genitals” , not “genitles” as in your most recent post.

    SJ: I am a long time lurker and first time poster. - apologies my first post is not more positive, but the tone of Brandi’s comments has really ticked me off. If one is opposed to circumcision, that is of course, one’s own decision. I understand this is a very inflammatory issue, but it is not necessary to resort to name calling. A number of posters have shared their anti-circumcision views in an appropriate, and non-judgmental manner.

    Comment by jzp — 6/27/2005 @ 7:16 pm

  144. Brandi -

    what the hell are you smoking?

    Comment by honey bunny — 6/27/2005 @ 7:30 pm

  145. I know, I noticed the spelling thing after sending. Again, I was speaking on more general terms. Also, I merely pointed out that more informed people make more thoughtful decisions. I am not the one who had to resort to sexual slander. As I stated many times before– legally (for now) it is the parent’s decision, jzp, but it really shouldn’t be, now should it? Any informed person would realize this, yes?

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 7:33 pm

  146. oh and brandi (with an “i")-

    i’m probably one of the most uninformed people commenting here. i don’t have a penis, i do not want to have a child with a penis, i don’t know if my brother is cut or not (nor do i care), and the only frame of reference i have is my fiance’s penis, which is cut. BUT i’m quite intelligent and well read, yet i think that it’s SJ and her Hub’s decision to get her boy’s weiner cut or not! so there goes your (lame) theory that only uneducated people think that parents should get their kids snipped.

    i’m pretty uninformed, but i’m still able to make a thoughtful decisions…especially when it comes to SOMEONE ELSE’S CHILD!

    why haven’t you grasped that it’s not your kid we’re talking about here?

    Comment by honey bunny — 6/27/2005 @ 7:39 pm

  147. Because parents shouldn’t have control over things like cutting a penis, why haven’t you grasped that? You know, like parents shouldn’t be allowed to molest their children, beat them, or prevent them from going to school? Get it? Penis cutting, I think, should also be out of parental control. As far as having a degree and being educated– I realize that many smart people (like even SJ’s husband, who is a scientist) think cutting is okay if that’s the social norm. What I am pointing out is that when people do educate themselves on why we do certain things and the consequences of them, there is a more thoughtful decision out of the two which comes about.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 8:06 pm

  148. Personally I don’t think there’s any need for the snip but whatever floats your boat. My hubby wanted our son done because he was but I told him to stick the macho bs and besides, it’s not gonna be dad’s wiener he’ll be comparing with, it’ll be his peers in the locker room and 99.9999999% of them won’t be snipped either these days (here that is).

    Having said that though, that was MY decision for MY baby and what YOU decide for YOURS is no-one else’s business.

    Comment by mushster — 6/27/2005 @ 8:15 pm

  149. Yes it is. I sure hope that if I decide to cut my baby girl’s labia off, someone would stop me.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 8:28 pm

  150. Okay having had sex with snipped and unsnipped I say DON’T SNIP. Life is definitely better in unsnippedland. There is more lubrication and the man can “catch” his semen (if he chooses) which makes for NO WET SPOTS. For those reasons alone, for the benefit of your son’s future partners I say don’t snip.

    Which is why my son isn’t snipped. In Australia 80% of young boys are left alone - this has changed in the last 40 years as I would say at least 50% of males my age if not more are snipped - I had to go overseas to source my uncut hero!

    Comment by Princess Sultana — 6/27/2005 @ 8:32 pm

  151. Hubby is not snipped and our baby boy is also not snipped. For the most part, when others see the penis, it is hard and therefore you can’t tell the difference between a snipped and not snipped penis. Hubby seems to have survived childhood with an unsnipped penis just fine. We live on the east coast, though, so I guess that makes a difference (don’t know how?). I just didn’t want them to hurt my little guy. Seemed unfair somehow.

    Comment by dollyllama — 6/27/2005 @ 8:34 pm

  152. Jesus God, you have 150 comments on a post about circumcision. Cutting on a dick seems to get the ladies a commenting huh? Anyway, the only way you get to have boys is if your husband is a “deep shooter” if ya know what I mean. I have two boys. It’s not an old wives tale. UCLA researchers just correlated (.89) gender with penis size and semen velocity. Told ya!

    Comment by Bob — 6/27/2005 @ 8:47 pm

  153. You mean sex.

    Comment by Brandi — 6/27/2005 @ 9:04 pm

  154. I have to confess to being a bit jealous at the number of comments here.

    Comment by Mieke — 6/27/2005 @ 10:12 pm

  155. ah heck….lets just save the trouble and CUT THE WHOLE DAMN THING OFF? and then….you can get him changed into a her…. after all it is just some skin and you already have the girly baby clothes!!!

    Comment by ands — 6/27/2005 @ 10:17 pm

  156. And by “girly baby clothes” I’m referring to the pink little dresses that society has decided represent the “female” and therefore force all children of the female sex to wear this color as they prance around picking flowers. Marking those poor children like the Nazi did the Jews.

    Comment by ands — 6/27/2005 @ 10:28 pm

  157. Ands.

    Who the fuck are you to equate dressing girls in pink with Nazis marking the Jews? As the child of a concentration camp survivor I have two words for you. FUCK YOU.

    You are talking out of your ass. Your gender role issues don’t come CLOSE to what happened to Jews by the Nazis so take your crap somewhere else.

    Not that I have a button on this issue or anything.

    Comment by Mieke — 6/27/2005 @ 10:41 pm

  158. Goddamn. People need to calm the fuck down about this. SJ, it is up to you and your husband on what you want to do if you have a boy. Good luck with whatever you decide. :-)

    Comment by Jessica — 6/27/2005 @ 11:33 pm

  159. Woah. I couldn’t read all of them. The best one I did see was…

    .53. I have to confess to being a bit jealous at the number of comments here.

    Comment by Mieke — 6/27/2005 @ 10:12 pm

    and the one who said chop the whole thing off. That is a wonderful idea and I am now contemplating doing that to my son. Kids get made fun of regardless. Personally I like playing peek-a-boo with my husbands uncut penis. But then again I am freak. You can’t really go wrong either way, just do what is best for your family. Good luck!

    Comment by Moxie — 6/27/2005 @ 11:38 pm

  160. Holy shite….with this many comments, I think I’ll just keep my mouth shut!

    Comment by Lujza — 6/28/2005 @ 12:27 am

  161. I once dated a guy who was irate about being snipped and truly mourned the loss of his foreskin. He says most of the nerve cells and lubing glands are there. Apparently unsnipped love is much more pleasurable for both the owner of the unsnipped organ and his partner. Not that he would know. But, you hear things. He likened it to female genital mutilation like in Africa. How is it any different?

    As for the “cleanliness” argument…c’mon, WE have all kinds of folds and crevices and dark places and you don’t hear about little girls having all these problems.

    Comment by Joie — 6/28/2005 @ 12:38 am

  162. Woah, SJ. My scrollbar is so very small on this entry. When I posted my first comment (BTW my brother is 10 years younger then I am and well, I was changing his diapers. Kinda hard not to notice. It’s not because I’m a freak. I’m a freak for other reasons) I didn’t even pay attention to the number of posts. Let alone read them (sorry was a busy busy day. Was lucky I got the chance to read my favorite blog with the chaos the was my day.) The tears are flowing so much re-reading all this that Hubs was looking at me concerned for my emotional state. Strange what laughter does to you. I just hope I don’t dive into strange dreams as I shut down and crawl into bed. I’d like to not have dancing peni’ on stage doing some West Side Story gang fight dance. Heck, after reading all this. I’m happy I’m leaving the decision up to Hubs if we are blessed with a boy one day in the future. *chuckles*

    Loved the long read tonight. Always leave it to you to make me smile even if it wasn’t meant for me to smile when you started your entry. Cheers!

    Comment by Tracy — 6/28/2005 @ 1:14 am

  163. Yeah, I agree, it was definitely a post written to get hits and comments. And like sheep, everyone followed. Bahhhhh. But the comments made me laugh harder than I have at the internet in awhile.

    Comment by trish — 6/28/2005 @ 5:32 am

  164. I was circumcised at birth. There was no medical reason for doing it. Can someone please give me a valid reason why part of my penis was unnecessarily cut off? My foreskin was normal, healthy and functional. I had every right to have, and experience, ALL of my body. Why is this violation of basic human rights allowed?

    Comment by smt — 6/28/2005 @ 9:04 am

  165. I don’t know..this seems like a “no brainer” to me. I have 3 unsnipped boys (and a snipped DH) and there’s nothing even remotely difficult about cleaning little boy bits.

    I read this comment: “And Brandi mentioned a “significant loss of sensation"….really do boys need that much more sensation then they already get… ” Boy are entitled to all of their sexuality - just like girls are. Who are we to decide how much sensation any individual should “need"?

    Every single baby boy is born with a foreskin for a reason: it’s supposed to be there, right? If you have a boy, he’ll be born simply perfect. Why mess with perfection?

    Good luck with your decision…

    Comment by Patti — 6/28/2005 @ 9:56 am

  166. I don’t see SJ making a post just to get hits. I’ve been reading her blog for a while now. I don’t know her personaly. I do, however, not see her even thinking this post would be so blown up like it did. I can imagine her waking up the next day or checking her comments in her e-mail later on during that day thinking, “Woah!” then after reading, laughing for the sheer fact that it suprised the heck out of her.

    As far as the reason for “clipping,” Check out this history page about it. It may not be totaly accurate. But it does explain why it was started in many many many parts of the world.
    http://www.cirp.org/library/history/

    Anyhow, I’m just thrilled SJ got what she was hoping for and will keep great vibes of thought heading her way for that healthy happy second child she indeed deserves. ;)

    Comment by Tracy — 6/28/2005 @ 10:45 am

  167. Holy crap, SJ!
    DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT YOUR BABY IS GOING TO BE YET?

    Anyway, I’ll not give you my personal opinions on the whole thing, because it’s none of my business what other people think. But I’ll tell you this:

    My brother’s weiner is one way (hey, we were a year apart. We took baths together. Of course this hasn’t happened in 25 years thank God but I’m pretty sure his foreskin situation hasn’t changed since then). He and his wife had a little boy last year. They made the decision about his foreskin.
    Not a big deal.

    My brother and mother and I were discussing it later and my mother mentioned how my brother’s is different from my father’s. Yeah, my family, we discuss foreskins. I asked him if he ever felt weird, because his was different from dad’s (which, how gross is it that I KNOW WHAT MY DAD’S WANG IS LIKE?). He said “What? No– what, do you think I spent a lot of time looking at Dad’s dick?".
    End of discussion.

    Comment by Louise — 6/28/2005 @ 11:05 am

  168. Thank you, tracy. Its not like this site gets 3 hits a day or anything. I figured there’d be like 60 comments, not 2 zillion because 5 people are fighting back and forth.

    But whatever. I don’t have to explain myself to anyone.

    Comment by Sarcastic Journalist — 6/28/2005 @ 11:42 am

  169. It’s really interesting to me to see all the defensiveness from those who circumcised. Facinating. And you’ll notice the same reasoning being used over and over and over again: My partner was adamant. I think women prefer circed. It’ll hurt more later.

    And the arguments from those who think she should leave her beautiful son healthy & whole? Arguments about the protective benefits of the foreskin, sexual function, the details of the procedure, risks, studies, research…

    Just facinating…

    Also, notice who’s doing the most name-calling. And, if you’re perturbed at the term “mutilate"-hey, go to dictionary.com and look it up. I tripple-dog-dare you. ;-)

    If you’ve never known of a man who wishes he wasn’t circed, check out norm.org-You’ll find something like 40,000 of them. Or, email me and I’ll send you a link to a thread on a messageboard with page upon page upon page of posts and stories from parents who circed and came to deeply regret it, because they realized they did it for the wrong reasons or based upon misinformation or because they were pressured by a friend, family member, or partner.

    Jen

    Comment by Jen — 6/28/2005 @ 12:11 pm

  170. Dear Mieke,

    I am the master of the universe…thats who.

    (that was sorta the point of that post…kinda like comparing cutting off eyelids…ect)

    and then there was that time that someone came and took a crap in my bathroom floor and puked in the toliet at the same time…and only cleaned it up with water…and told me years later…

    BUH

    Comment by ands — 6/28/2005 @ 12:11 pm

  171. I think enough people have given an opinion on THIS one.

    Comment by Sarcastic Journalist — 6/28/2005 @ 12:24 pm

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